And so I was doing bits and bobs and they came to me because I was friends with Grant Kirkhope, the composer, I'd met him some years before. So I was always a massive rare fan. But again, I didn't mention that, you know, when we're talking about the early years, but the fact that there was a Nintendo studio in the UK was huge to me as a kid. Right. And Donkey Kong Country was such an important game. Like I'd never seen anything like it, especially the soundtrack, like a really like melancholy soundtrack on this…
obvious, you know, kind of like, takeaways that seemingly obvious that what I remember, like, I remember like these guys have like, you know, shipped millions and millions of games in their careers. And I remember them saying to me like the reason the sequels are always better is because you're basically making the first game again. Right. Like say like Donkey Kong Country 2 is one of my favorite games, it's been the first we made the first game again. It's that's the that's the and everyone tells you this and…
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... you know, and that's that's when you see all the patience to do that. You worked on it for ages, and you just bin it and you do it again better. Because that's, that's the luxury that we had that we didn't have on the first game. We didn't have the time and the resources to go, this is good. But we start again from scratch, we do it better. And you know, that kind of all these obvious, you know, kind of like, takeaways that seemingly obvious that what I remember, like, I remember like these guys have like, you know, shipped millions and millions of games in their careers. And I remember them saying to me like the reason the sequels are always better is because you're basically making the first game again. Right. Like say like Donkey Kong Country 2 is one of my favorite games, it's been the first we made the first game again. It's that's the that's the and everyone tells you this and you didn't really take it in until I did it. Games development is like you're building a house while remote working. All of the different tradesmen are building parts of the house remotely off of a broad design like someone's telling them. And you actually you don't know what the house looks like until the last couple of months when everyone puts all the bits together. And then you're like, Oh, we should have done the chimney different or we should have done this different. So if you were to scrap that and start again, you do that, but it's expensive and it takes time. Yeah, it's not for everyone for sure. But what an amazing experience to have had at the same time. I suppose then VGC we did talk about this at the very start of the show, but like, ...